Anchorage - Anchorage Third Anchor
Tuesday, May 13, 2008
With this piece I remember an episode that I think "historic" because it is the first attempt at dialogue distance between "fronts" opposites. 
We are in 2000, when I was still associated with the GRIS, Association Catholic whose initials "Group for Research and Information on the Sects", in recent years has become the "Group for Research and Information Socioreligiosa" means a random change that does not reflect on the meaning and implications inherent in the word "cult."
On 27 March 2000, ten days after the massacre in Uganda, I was interviewed by the journalist of the Corriere del Ticino Carlo Silini with Introvigne, director of
CESNUR, Centro Studi "independent of any religious organization or confessional. " Silini Carlo is one of the few serious journalists and professional I have ever met.
I recall with pleasure this person with whom I talked on the phone and I thought that was just trustworthy and sincerely interested in good information to a dispute difficult to understand for those who are not insiders. I must say that my experience with journalists has been, in most cases, very disappointing. Most of them tend to write articles that attract an audience and impressionino fasting for information, using metaphors old and inconsistent, leads to fear of dangerous cults that are brainwashed and spread an alarm that does not help anyone because it is so beyond any reality that the end is even exhilarating. A recent example of this information garbage is the article published on May 16 last Republic titled "The Italy of psycho" I have been reported and have read with difficulty because, after the first two lines, I was tempted to go no further: jumble cliches and expressions of those who prefer not to comment on Christian charity toward those who wrote it and who approved its publication. I seem to "shoot on the Red Cross." of this "information" are full web pages and those of prestigious newspapers, broadcast television networks as well as financed by honest citizens who pay the fee.
I close this parenthesis immediately to return to the present unpleasant memories of the past.
When I re-read the old interview of Charles Silini, I realized that it is not "old" and that today, eight years later, if someone would put the same questions, after all, respond in the same way, if my answers are part of a different perspective.
diversity of perspective depends on the path to cultural and personal that I have accomplished in the past eight years. While my interests then were mainly of type "pastoral" in the time it has been directed to investigate On 27 March 2000, ten days after the massacre in Uganda, I was interviewed by the journalist of the Corriere del Ticino Carlo Silini with Introvigne, director of
CESNUR, Centro Studi "independent of any religious organization or confessional. " Silini Carlo is one of the few serious journalists and professional I have ever met.
I recall with pleasure this person with whom I talked on the phone and I thought that was just trustworthy and sincerely interested in good information to a dispute difficult to understand for those who are not insiders. I must say that my experience with journalists has been, in most cases, very disappointing. Most of them tend to write articles that attract an audience and impressionino fasting for information, using metaphors old and inconsistent, leads to fear of dangerous cults that are brainwashed and spread an alarm that does not help anyone because it is so beyond any reality that the end is even exhilarating. A recent example of this information garbage is the article published on May 16 last Republic titled "The Italy of psycho" I have been reported and have read with difficulty because, after the first two lines, I was tempted to go no further: jumble cliches and expressions of those who prefer not to comment on Christian charity toward those who wrote it and who approved its publication. I seem to "shoot on the Red Cross." of this "information" are full web pages and those of prestigious newspapers, broadcast television networks as well as financed by honest citizens who pay the fee.
I close this parenthesis immediately to return to the present unpleasant memories of the past.
When I re-read the old interview of Charles Silini, I realized that it is not "old" and that today, eight years later, if someone would put the same questions, after all, respond in the same way, if my answers are part of a different perspective.
also the manner in which the world of secular culture (history, sociology and psychology of religion) addresses the problem of sectarian rifts and how humans live their religious experience, no matter what religion or spirituality profess.
Without this necessary clarification, the excerpts of the interview that carry help to add another piece to the mosaic that is slowly taking shape.
interview,
in fact, was the first attempt at dialogue with a member of the sociologists of the world considered to be "defenders of the seven", that kind of dialogue that Michael Langone for several years and are striving to achieve, and I have already mentioned in this blog
.
It was a dialogue "at a distance" to highlight their positions on some issues of great importance.
It was an interesting opportunity to clearly show the diversity of views between two worlds that are, in my opinion, and discuss co-exist to study and deal with this phenomenon.
Here are the important parts of the 'interview, which I close with this third element that I hope will be a further stimulus to reflection and contribute to the dissemination of accurate and reliable.
Those disputes AROUND SEVEN page Silini Carlo
There are church-related organizations such as Catholic GRIS (Group of Research and Information on the Sects) according to which there is seven and seven, most are harmless, some techniques used to manipulate its members - such as brainwashing - that threaten the fundamental rights of individuals. There are others, like CESNUR (Center for Studies on New Religions) - considered a landmark, not only in Italy, to the knowledge of the subject - that have challenged the use of the word "sect", because it has a negative connotation, they consider outdated concepts such as brainwashing and show caution in accepting the testimony of former adherents to religious groups.
Who is right? Those involved in the most correct, scientific alternative to religion? Answering this question is to immerse yourself forced into a sea of \u200b\u200bcontroversy, sometimes poisonous academics. We prefer svelenirne tones calmly discussing with Dr. Raffaella Di Marzio with the director of the GRIS and CESNUR Introvigne.
Raffaella Di Marzio
"Yes, when you approach the study of these movements, at the beginning you think you understand everything . But as these movements are made by people and people are complex, there is also aware that their point of view is not necessarily what right. On the other hand, the study of these forms of religiosity involves issues of a philosophical, psychological, religious and social so comprehensive that it is very difficult to assess in an objective manner, intending to target anything that is scientific, that is measurable and quantifiable. The student may risk both of being too involved, both to be groped involved so as not objective at all and then not to know the reality of the movement. "
"Because my business is mainly to listen to people who turn to us for help, my assumption is to check with these people as problems in terms of psychological and social affiliation of a member has for the small social group of the family ".
And from the doctrinal point of view however, her position from that side?
"I am Catholic and I am committed to a research group whose status was approved by the Italian Bishops' Conference. But this does not mean that as a Catholic I have to look to new movements with suspicion. The teaching of the Catholic Church is very firm on the issue of religious freedom and constantly reiterates the right of all men to be free in their choice of religion. So over the new forms of religiosity. Only when I see that under the guise of religion can be exercised abuse of people feel involved, not only as a Catholic, but as a person, groped in solving these problems, if possible. "
study of her new religion is based more on the experiences of participant observation (consisting of student participation in the life of a movement), or on the testimonies of ex-followers? It takes account of whistle brainwashed into a cult ?
"To study the new religiosity must use different methods. Participant observation may be valid if it is done in a long time and if not used as a unique resource, because many movements are presented to students who participate in their activities only as a positive. Then you must listen to people who have been part of these groups and who can prove that there are other things that hide the movements would not be pleasant to scholars because they then write these things in their books. We must listen to is one that others. With regards to the issue of brainwashing: within any social group there are methods to maintain control of its members by group and by the leader. This happens even within religious movements. The level of social control may be variable. In some cases it is very mild and leaves people free, others have very strong and a strong influence on people. " [...]
In the study of seven and then in the legal measures to them of what should be taken?
"Our society should learn to mediate between the fundamental human freedoms: freedom of religion but also freedom of the individual self, so that religion would not result in violation of conscience in human freedom. If scientists were able to initiate a fruitful dialogue on this overall objective would be affected positively the whole environment. Even new religious movements that do not exert negative control over followers. While the abuse would be made clear that some groups, although limited in number, do the members. "
Introvigne
" approaches to religion or belief, however, fall outside of science "
Introvigne, part of what assumptions his research on alternative religion?
"For a social scientist talking about an approach that is independent from the researcher's personal values \u200b\u200band seeks to describe a situation with no beginning or a doctrinal position on their own (eg Catholicism), nor by ideological positions (for as secularism). These two approaches "religion" and "ideological" have their own legitimate field of application in the work of polemicists, but fall outside of science. The rule that the international associations of sociology of religion has always promoted is that of a secular nature of research and a methodological agnosticism. "
And that should be in the search space observation participant, the testimony of former members and considerations brainwashing?
"Participant observation is a technique prince, but not exempt from the examination of documents and interviews with both members, both former members. Beware, though: in general for the former members' Public opinion means those who have become opponents of the movement, "apostates", in technical terms. But among the "ex" apostates are a minority, 10 to 15 percent. The remaining 85% is not going to propose to journalists or anti-cult organizations, but the search should find them because they have more mixed reaction. We will say that there were good aspects in the movement and aspects bad. It is among the most serious methodological error to mistake the former member who offers to its initiative to newspapers and scholars as representative of the majority of ex-members ".
And brainwashed?
"is a notion shared by a small but militant minority scholars in academia and that do not correspond to any empirical truth by the vast majority of scholars of new religious movements".
There ' is a risk that such an approach to the problem groups such as the CESNUR offer an incomplete, distorted, innocent of these reality?
"Look, methodological and scientific standards of CESNUR are the same as most major international organizations in history and sociology of religion."
And what value they have for her contributions to groups defined as "anti-cult" or "counter-cult"?
"I think they are potentially interesting, both as an object of study because the researcher must consider the secularist criticism of religion and religious movements. Both because it is not inconceivable that within them there are valuable people capable of doing interesting observations. But
dialogue among scholars is difficult ...
"Yes, because the anti-cult movements and against the seven have found that an obstacle to their projects, especially in terms of translation in bills of their ideas, is represented by scholars and scientists in general attack as cult apologists. " [...]
Without this necessary clarification, the excerpts of the interview that carry help to add another piece to the mosaic that is slowly taking shape.
interview,
in fact, was the first attempt at dialogue with a member of the sociologists of the world considered to be "defenders of the seven", that kind of dialogue that Michael Langone for several years and are striving to achieve, and I have already mentioned in this blog
.
It was a dialogue "at a distance" to highlight their positions on some issues of great importance.
It was an interesting opportunity to clearly show the diversity of views between two worlds that are, in my opinion, and discuss co-exist to study and deal with this phenomenon.
Here are the important parts of the 'interview, which I close with this third element that I hope will be a further stimulus to reflection and contribute to the dissemination of accurate and reliable.
Those disputes AROUND SEVEN page Silini Carlo
specialists divided: those who study the phenomenon in a more scientific?
Corriere del Ticino - MONDAY 'March 27, 2000 - p.39
E' can be an objective approach to the world of alternative religion? Sociologists, skeptical groups, research centers linked to each other religions offer very different readings.
On 17 March, several hundred people have died in the fire in a church in Uganda in what was presented as a collective suicide or massacre. And as always in these cases an application has been revived with power: the seven dangerous? To read some newspapers would say yes. To hear the opinion of the experts would say, maybe. Why are the experts, or those we call these, between them are not very well. Corriere del Ticino - MONDAY 'March 27, 2000 - p.39
E' can be an objective approach to the world of alternative religion? Sociologists, skeptical groups, research centers linked to each other religions offer very different readings.
There are church-related organizations such as Catholic GRIS (Group of Research and Information on the Sects) according to which there is seven and seven, most are harmless, some techniques used to manipulate its members - such as brainwashing - that threaten the fundamental rights of individuals. There are others, like CESNUR (Center for Studies on New Religions) - considered a landmark, not only in Italy, to the knowledge of the subject - that have challenged the use of the word "sect", because it has a negative connotation, they consider outdated concepts such as brainwashing and show caution in accepting the testimony of former adherents to religious groups.
Who is right? Those involved in the most correct, scientific alternative to religion? Answering this question is to immerse yourself forced into a sea of \u200b\u200bcontroversy, sometimes poisonous academics. We prefer svelenirne tones calmly discussing with Dr. Raffaella Di Marzio with the director of the GRIS and CESNUR Introvigne.
Raffaella Di Marzio
"I, a Catholic, I am not against the seven - But is it right on their monitor abuses
Dr. Di Marzio, the Swiss expert Jean-François Mayer reported that the seven are not taught with impunity for years, it hardly comes out unharmed and with far less certainty to the start. Share this statement?
Dr. Di Marzio, the Swiss expert Jean-François Mayer reported that the seven are not taught with impunity for years, it hardly comes out unharmed and with far less certainty to the start. Share this statement?
"Yes, when you approach the study of these movements, at the beginning you think you understand everything . But as these movements are made by people and people are complex, there is also aware that their point of view is not necessarily what right. On the other hand, the study of these forms of religiosity involves issues of a philosophical, psychological, religious and social so comprehensive that it is very difficult to assess in an objective manner, intending to target anything that is scientific, that is measurable and quantifiable. The student may risk both of being too involved, both to be groped involved so as not objective at all and then not to know the reality of the movement. "
From being a pre-party for his research on religiosity alternative?
"Because my business is mainly to listen to people who turn to us for help, my assumption is to check with these people as problems in terms of psychological and social affiliation of a member has for the small social group of the family ".
And from the doctrinal point of view however, her position from that side?
"I am Catholic and I am committed to a research group whose status was approved by the Italian Bishops' Conference. But this does not mean that as a Catholic I have to look to new movements with suspicion. The teaching of the Catholic Church is very firm on the issue of religious freedom and constantly reiterates the right of all men to be free in their choice of religion. So over the new forms of religiosity. Only when I see that under the guise of religion can be exercised abuse of people feel involved, not only as a Catholic, but as a person, groped in solving these problems, if possible. "
study of her new religion is based more on the experiences of participant observation (consisting of student participation in the life of a movement), or on the testimonies of ex-followers? It takes account of whistle brainwashed into a cult ?
"To study the new religiosity must use different methods. Participant observation may be valid if it is done in a long time and if not used as a unique resource, because many movements are presented to students who participate in their activities only as a positive. Then you must listen to people who have been part of these groups and who can prove that there are other things that hide the movements would not be pleasant to scholars because they then write these things in their books. We must listen to is one that others. With regards to the issue of brainwashing: within any social group there are methods to maintain control of its members by group and by the leader. This happens even within religious movements. The level of social control may be variable. In some cases it is very mild and leaves people free, others have very strong and a strong influence on people. " [...]
In the study of seven and then in the legal measures to them of what should be taken?
"Our society should learn to mediate between the fundamental human freedoms: freedom of religion but also freedom of the individual self, so that religion would not result in violation of conscience in human freedom. If scientists were able to initiate a fruitful dialogue on this overall objective would be affected positively the whole environment. Even new religious movements that do not exert negative control over followers. While the abuse would be made clear that some groups, although limited in number, do the members. "
Introvigne
" approaches to religion or belief, however, fall outside of science "
Introvigne, part of what assumptions his research on alternative religion?
"For a social scientist talking about an approach that is independent from the researcher's personal values \u200b\u200band seeks to describe a situation with no beginning or a doctrinal position on their own (eg Catholicism), nor by ideological positions (for as secularism). These two approaches "religion" and "ideological" have their own legitimate field of application in the work of polemicists, but fall outside of science. The rule that the international associations of sociology of religion has always promoted is that of a secular nature of research and a methodological agnosticism. "
And that should be in the search space observation participant, the testimony of former members and considerations brainwashing?
"Participant observation is a technique prince, but not exempt from the examination of documents and interviews with both members, both former members. Beware, though: in general for the former members' Public opinion means those who have become opponents of the movement, "apostates", in technical terms. But among the "ex" apostates are a minority, 10 to 15 percent. The remaining 85% is not going to propose to journalists or anti-cult organizations, but the search should find them because they have more mixed reaction. We will say that there were good aspects in the movement and aspects bad. It is among the most serious methodological error to mistake the former member who offers to its initiative to newspapers and scholars as representative of the majority of ex-members ".
And brainwashed?
"is a notion shared by a small but militant minority scholars in academia and that do not correspond to any empirical truth by the vast majority of scholars of new religious movements".
There ' is a risk that such an approach to the problem groups such as the CESNUR offer an incomplete, distorted, innocent of these reality?
"Look, methodological and scientific standards of CESNUR are the same as most major international organizations in history and sociology of religion."
And what value they have for her contributions to groups defined as "anti-cult" or "counter-cult"?
"I think they are potentially interesting, both as an object of study because the researcher must consider the secularist criticism of religion and religious movements. Both because it is not inconceivable that within them there are valuable people capable of doing interesting observations. But
dialogue among scholars is difficult ...
"Yes, because the anti-cult movements and against the seven have found that an obstacle to their projects, especially in terms of translation in bills of their ideas, is represented by scholars and scientists in general attack as cult apologists. " [...]
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